I wouldn’t call exactly what is happening like a collapse, perhaps more than a collective moment of clarity. Right Now R / tes Reddit engines in the forum, there is an intense and very serious conversation about the $ 2,000 level driver assistance package that Tesla calls “Full Self-Driving” (FSD), specifically whether the functions that Tesla and Elon Musk will ever exist start promising in 2016, and what kind of legal exposure Tesla has if it doesn’t arrive. People have left real money and still haven’t gotten what they expected, which has led to these difficult conversations.
The original poster said they were motivated to start the thread because of The description by Ford representative Mike Levine of Tesla’s “FSD” system as “vaporware” which provoked much debate about the status of “FSD” as vaporware or not within the Tesla community.
This is how the poster explains it:
Serious: What exposure does Tesla have if the FSD doesn’t get into the hands of the owner?
This may not be the right forum, but I’m curious if anyone has done a semi-academic study of the legal and financial exposure to Tesla and perhaps Elon himself if the FSD continues to drive? I understand it’s a tricky question because Tesla isn’t too close and the reasons for driving them can vary enormously, from mistakes to government intervention.
I am often punished by other owners for having a serious rather than optimistic view of the company, but it seems to me that FSD pre-sales constitute a contractual obligation for a specific set of functions and that at some point the lack of performance of The promise is a breach of contract not only with the return, but also with sanctions and other legal actions
This is a totally valid question to ask, especially if you’ve coughed up ten grains (plus the cost of the car) for a set of technological capabilities you haven’t seen yet. However, the PO is not only concerned with this; They are also concerned about Tesla’s potential liability as a company if it doesn’t live up to its “FSD” promises.
There’s also a lot of talk about what Tesla really promises when you pre-order “FSD,” though that shouldn’t provoke as much debate, as Tesla’s own website states this quite clearly:
“All new Tesla cars have the necessary hardware in the future to drive completely in almost all circumstances. The system is designed to be able to make short and long distance journeys without the person in the driver’s seat taking any action.
All you have to do is get in and tell your car where to go. If you say nothing, the car will look at your calendar and take you there as an assumed destination or just home if there is nothing on the calendar. Your Tesla will figure out the optimal route, navigate urban streets (even without lane markings), manage complex intersections with traffic lights, stop signs, and roundabouts, and drive densely packed highways with high-speed cars. When you arrive at your destination, just exit at the entrance and the car will enter parking search mode, automatically search for a spot and park. A ringing of the phone summons him again.
Future use of these unsupervised functions depends on achieving superior reliability to human drivers, as evidenced by billions of miles of experience, as well as regulatory approval, which may take longer in some jurisdictions. As these autonomous driving features are introduced, your car will be continuously updated with antenna software updates. ”
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Surely it seems a complete autonomy, level 5, with descriptions like “The system is designed to be able to make short and long distance journeys without the person in the driver’s seat requiring any action” i “All you have to do is get in and tell your car where to go.”
The system is not yet very close.
Other parts of the Tesla site break down “FSD” into seven different modules:
Many of the responses suggest that class action lawsuits may be possible, despite Tesla’s legal disclaimers, in part because Elon Musk’s tweets and other comments about “FSD’s” capabilities and timeline make many very specific claims. :
“A big, big class action. Tesla’s disclaimers do not protect them from legal action, especially considering Elon’s tweets. “
An example of Elon’s tweet could be this, from 2018:
Okay, he did a cover with “probably” there, but inside this call for earnings for the fourth quarter of 2019, He said
“This year we will have a complete driving. The car will be able to find you in a parking lot, pick you up and take you to your destination without any intervention this year. I’m sure. This is not a question mark. It will be essentially safe to fall asleep and wake up at your destination by the end of next year. ”
Yes, you may not be sleeping in your Tesla yet.
The mention of “regulators” in the previous tweet is also notable, due to the frequency with which the concept of regulatory delays seems to appear when Tesla talks about “FSD”.
Is it like that mentioned in the Reddit discussion several times, and instead of Tesla hints at the idea that regulatory issues are the ones holding back “FSD”. at the beginning of a video showing the capabilities of “FSD”:
The problem is, as also mentioned in this Reddit thread, there are currently no federal regulations on autonomous vehicles. Some states have regulations, but many of these states, including Florida and Michigan, allow autonomous vehicles to be driven on public roads. Tennessee even has legislation prohibiting to local governments to ban AVs.
If anything prevents the delivery of “FSD”, it is not the government.
What makes this thread interesting is that it’s a good reminder that as often as you can talk about Tesla Stans, hardish and cultured, the actual owners are not, of course, a monolithic block.
In this thread it can be said that there are many smart people with disposable income who want autonomous vehicles to reach the market and make a hopeful and costly decision to trust what they were told. Now they are not so sure.
Of course, there are also ardent proponents of Tesla, even those who seem to have a reasonably clear view of the situation:
“I agree that Elon has been too optimistic about the state of full autonomous driving. However, I’m clear (or at least he was) that he was paying for a set of really neat driver automation features with an absolutely ADAS killer with the potential to get even more driver automation up to L5 when available.
I think the heartburn around this feature really comes from the name of the feature. FSD and Autopilot are crazy optimistic names for what they currently offer. But that’s what I love about Tesla and that’s why I bought one (and later shares of the company). They make moon shots in so many places. The interior of the Model 3 is simple because it is designed for a universe where you do not drive. The same goes for the Model S and its integrated yoke and Smart Shift. You have to do crazy shit like this to make the future a reality ”.
So this commenter agrees that the autopilot and “FSD” names are “crazy optimistic,” but he still finds it to be something “Tesla loves.”
At one point, the PO is asked “what is your purpose” to which they respond
“The discussion about the state of the FSD, the deadline and whether progress is reasonable has been held many times here and elsewhere. I find that it usually becomes a party of shouts between the two well-represented groups here, which it’s the mass of people bordering on Elon worshipers and those who feel mistreated or deceived by him.Just two days ago I experienced something very similar to that of an FB thread for my local Tesla owner’s group .
I try to participate in a more reflective assessment of what is happening from a non-technical perspective. In particular, I try to make a determination in my own mind if what is happening here is reasonable and justifiable or if there is something ominous going on. It is easy to make accusations or draw conclusions based on preconceived biases about it. I hope to be more factual in this regard. “
I have tried to cite some key parts here, but I think that if you are remotely interested in the development of autonomy and Tesla in particular, this is a very interesting thread to read.
There are so many things and so many questions raised here. Is “FSD” a really serious project with real achievable goals and objectives, or an elaborate scam to get a lot of money without delivering anything?
Is it real, but is he far behind and suffering from Elon’s frequent overexpression and promising excess? I like when he claimed that Teslas valued assets because they could soon make money for their owners as autonomous robotaxis?
Could pre-order buyers “FSD” file a class action if the promised capabilities are not delivered? Is Tesla protected from this? What would paralyze the company?
There are so many questions and there really aren’t many answers, at least not yet. While it is good that the discussion is taking place, as all of these issues need to be addressed.